Do you think the numbers come from the lighthouse, or do you think they were put there after the numbers were associated with each candidate?

it is the lighthouse? at least that's how I see it.

jacks number in the cave is 23 and it was in the lighthouse so I'm gunna say the lighthouse dictated the candidates and jacob acted on that.

I would guess that Jacob put them there. I have a big long theory on the names and crap that I'm way too lazy to type because A) it probably makes no sense outside of my own head and B) it would be a 3 page essay

I guess maybe.

Eh, I dunno about that. If that were the case then when smokey tells Sawyer that Jacob has a thing for numbers it doesn't make as much sense. Makes more sense that Jacob simply assigned them the numbers after they were picked (perhaps they're possible solutions to the Valenzetti Equation) or that Jacob himself chose them and wrote down their names and then assigned them the numbers.

but wouldn't it make sense that over time the lighthouse showed 360 different people and as jacob brought them to the island or whatever caused them to fail as a candidate they were scratched off. So now that all the candidates are either on the island or have failed everything is coming to an end for jacob and he doesn't care about the mirrors anymore. And maybe "someone" is a higher power then both jacob and smokey and jacob needs to show the work he's done once the final candidate is found? I dunno

Well, the lighthouse is a 360 degree dial with one name attached to each degree which points towards that there are exactly 360 predetermined candidates that are going to come to the island in predetermined "clumps" or else the odds of just adding names overtime that *happen* to fit a 360 degree dial is waaaaaaaaay too coincidental for Lost.

Its possible that the dial gets filled up and once all the 360 names are scratched off another 360 are added and who knows what dial they're on. So I think its hard to say that just because the dial is almost all scratched off that things are indefinitely coming to an end.

I'm not sure if there will be a higher power than Jacob/Smokey, but I could see them going that direction. It will be interesting to see who exactly is coming to the island - so many possible directions they could take, but if I had to guess I'd say it will be someone we have never seen before or, a more far out guess, is it will be a boat of kids from the other timeline (Jack's son, samurai guy's kid, claire's baby, Sun's baby, Sawyer's kid)

EDIT: Something else I just thought of that is huge and hasn't been addressed is when Locke/Ben go to visit "jacob" in the cabin when Ben was just talking to no one and then stuff started flying around and later Ben confesses that he had no idea what was going on.

So you can see a bunch of names when Hurley is moving the dial and next to 108 is the name "Wallace" and is crossed off. So I guess it will be someone we've never seen before, or at least I can't remember anyone named Wallace. There's also a few other names on the dial that aren't crossed off yet and I have no idea who they belong to. It took a bit to pause it on the right frame, but it looks like number 60 is someone named Kysea and 61 is Davies (or Davzes or Davtes can't really tell) and also 56 looks like it isn't crossed out but can barely make out the name (haasea or haasid something).

And why is Jack's name written in something different from all the other ones?

Also, who is going to be David's father? Will it still be his same ex-wife from the original timeline or will it be someone like Juliet since they're still all connected in the new timeline.

Lostpedia seems to have a pretty comprehensive list of names:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates

Pretty interesting that just about anyone who is on the island is a candidate.

I'm starting to think that the cave with the names is smokey's list and the lighthouse belongs to Jacob and Jacob doesn't want smokey to use it and that's why he has Jack go there and smash the mirrors.

With the child that smokey and some others can see there must be some higher power for the island i'd guess. Remember the skeletons in season 1 with the white and black stones, that was Smokey/Jacob? Smokey says he was a man once. I assume that they came to the island in some similar way in the past. Jacob mostly just seems to give the candidates a push in the direction he wants them to go. He first says that he wants to help "them" get to the island to Hugo, then he tells him it's ok Hugo Jack just needed a push so it was ok he broke the mirrors. So are there more people coming or not? Not sure yet. If there are a "next batch" the kids thing might be possible but doesn't seem to be(i know it's just a random guess). It seems like this batch is almost over and one of them will become the "next Jacob", then maybe another batch will begin "the kids" or something else if that's the direction they go if they were to even go that route. Remember that Jack's number is 23 so he is the Michael Jordan of Lost.


Noticed the names on the dial and they made me wonder more about if Jacob was simply pushing Jack to break the mirrors for more than one purpose. I mean he tells Hugo about giving Jack the nudge he needs, but it seems like more. Haasea, Kysea the two names not crossed out, names are sorta similar. If more people are trying to get to the island maybe they are the people.

Might be possible.

So Smokey is recuiting. They say that Sawyer is his first recuit, but notice at the end of the episode that Claire tells Jin that Smokey is her friend. So Jarrah is infected but the darkness that consumes him isn't to his heart yet so he's not "taken over or Smokey's puppet yet?", but Claire is "taken over or Smokey's puppet" due to the darkness reaching her heart long ago? So is Claire a "past recuit or current one" of Smokey's or just one of his minions cause of the whole darkness thing.

I can't wait to see where they go with the whole David part(Jack's son in the flash sideway).

I agree that there are other powers on the island, like that kid, but I don't know if I want to commit to saying that they're necessarily "higher" powers.

As far as those two bodies in the cave go, I suppose that could be their bodies, but I have a problem with that being true when Jacob gets stabbed by Ben, bleeds, and his body burns away in a fire and turns to ash.

I think nuch is right that the cave is not Jacobs list. Curious as to if the names are the same between the two.

Yeah about Jacob's body. I just wonder when they shed their actual bodies(If they even did). Was it right there in the foot of the statue for Jacob? Cause Smokey says he was a man once, which he makes sound like it was long ago, plus he is currently Locke, which makes me wonder about the whole thing about the body changing for Smokey. Hey maybe his body is stored somewhere and he can go back to it somehow. Maybe they aren't actually men anymore but they have their physical bodies.

Ok lol this is going places now, i'm gonna stop on this one.

My guess would be that they time traveled so much with the island that they "lost" their humanity and became the keepers or whatever of the island. I'd be surprised if this included actually shedding their physical forms and leaving corpses behind.

A simple explanation to all the hieroglyphics would be that Jacob/Smokey were originally from that time period and that's how they used to communicate and learned english/other languages over the incredibly long period of time they've been "alive", or rather trapped. But, I'd like to think there's a more complex and beautiful explanation to all the hieroglyphics than that.

I wonder how long Jacob/Smokey have actually been on the island for. There's ash on the island before Jacob dies which would indicate prior keepers. Maybe they keep reliving the same time period over and over until one of them is able to "win". Each time they redo the same time period they gain more knowledge of the candidates and they're able to manipulate them even more. So then the alternate timeline we're seeing where 815 didn't crash is a failed attempt that was just "progress" and Jacob/Smokey used the island to go back in time and start over. Who knows how many times that's happened and that's why when the losties see each other outside the island they get a sense of familiarity.

But I guess that doesn't make much sense when we saw that Jack suddenly had his appendix missing in the alternate time line and can't remember having the surgery done. Maybe Jacob/Smokey have turned back time so much that parts of the time lines are beginning to blend/mesh together into one or something.

I was pretty bored in class today so I just kept thinking about lost lol

Something else to note is remember how Farraday kept saying that to get to and from the island you had to make sure you kept a bearing of 305? I wonder if that's because the dial in the lighthouse was set to 305? or does that number have some sort of other significance or none at all?

Good theory about the time travel part for Jacob/Smokey. Also about how it might be possible to be playing the time periods over and over. Remember how some of the people that were on the island died from time traveling to much? Could explain how Jacob/Smokey lost their physical bodies possibly. Jacob did always know when to intervene in the candidates lives when they were children to steer them to the island. I would think with the power they have they could time travel. However, i don't think Richard could time travel cause he was always trying to figure out who the people were that went back in time and tryed to explain things to him(Locke for example). Richard is an advisor, but i'd still like to know how deep he fits into this whole story.

It might be possible that Jacob/Smokey been around that long(egyptian times). This was a question Asano and I through around some, but we have no answer. If there were prior keepers it makes me wonder how long Jacob has been a keeper for, and how long has he been trying to find a replacement. I'm not sure if they are trying to "win" something, but Smokey has found ways around the "rules", and just seems to want to escape now(possibly cause he couldn't "win"). So maybe Jacob was to keep Smokey trapped there for all time or something else.

Something else, at times the island just seems like a test. Even more so when you have the child say things like you can't break the rules.

I'm really confidet we'll find out that Jacob and smokey are from the future. I'd be really suprised if they are from ancient Egypt.

wasn't there a scene once when the "feet statue" was a whole statue and jacob and some other dude where having a conversation by it?

I don't remember if anyone was talking by it, but yeah there was a scene of the statue whole and it looked like Anubis. And the whole ankh thing Hurley brought to the temple that shows up in a few other places are connected to the whole Egyptian theme.

Oh they might have existed in egyptian times, but I don't think that's their time of origin.

Right, they probably time traveled back to that time.

Two different scenes, one was of the full statue.

Other scene was Jacob talking to Smokey on the beach next to it but they never show it, in this scene they show a boat from around 15-17th century i believe and Smokey telling Jacob he wants to kill him or something close.

I think.

yeah, the full statue i think is to show that they lived were alive so long ago the statue still existed, now he just lives in the foot.

For an episode that was going to "tell us everything" NOT A GODDAMN THING HAPPENED THE WHOLE FUCKING EPISODE

Maybe you didn't notice, but at the end of the episode in small print it said: "This episode brought to you by ELUNNE"

Their previews have always been full of shit.

I thought it was one of the better episodes of the season, but, of course, the bar hasn't been set very high either. No questions answered, as usual, but at least stuff happened. Surprised to see Kate join Locke's posse, but it seems like she's just tagging along to see what happens.

Sadly, not a whole lot to talk about. Only 10 more episodes to go.

The only real thing that was confirmed was that everytime someone saw a dead friend/relative, it was the smoke monster.

Look at it this way, also take note that the same stuff is happening in the flash sideways that seem unavoidable for those going down the path of becoming bad. I guess you can say the same for those that have become good or netural.

Sayid for example in the flash sideways being forced to protect his brother's kids and the woman he loves. He trys to stay good and wash his hands, but he has no choice but to protect the ones he loves. He has no brotherly love from turning his brother down!

Kate is fighting to escape so it's alittle different for her you can say in the sideways. On the island she seems to be tagging along, Smokey doesn't get a chance to ask her to join or not, we have to assume for now that she did since she is along for the ride. So she is just trying to survive(same as in the sideways).

Jack and his son are on better terms in the flash sideways, Jacob seems to be pushing him along the path of the righteous(whatever that might be still)!

Hugo, he just seems netural in the whole series.

Dogen and his buddy the hippie die, this part is alittle confusing cause would this of ever happened if they just left Sayid alone(just the same as the sideways cause Sayid listened to her to not get involved till he was forced to). Dogen convinced Sayid that if he had any good in him he would strike Smokey down. Now i know that this was just a plot to get Sayid killed cause he is inevitablely going to be evil anyway it seems, but Sayid made the choice to strike Smokey down(if he had any good left in him). Seems like while it was just a trick to get him killed it had more meaning it to, cause Sayid's choice. One last thing Dogen has tryed to kill Smokey before it looks like, so is Smokey even killable? I'd assume so since Jacob is dead, is there some secret way of killing him? If so why since Jacob died so easy. So Sayid becomes evil in the end.

My question about Sayid is that Smokey seemed to know that Sayid would kill Dogen before he even striked the dagger into Smokey. Cause he didn't kill Sayid, Smokey doesn't seem to kill anyone that is one his side(or has darkness in them). So it was gonna happen either way cause Sayid was gonna become evil either way and Dogen was gonna do what he did either way cause to stay good they have to fight evil?

So for now we can break it up like this.

Good guys, Jack, Hugo, Jin?, Sun, Elana, Pilot dude, Ben?lol, Half the village(dead).

Bad guys, Sawyer, Sayid, Claire, Kate?, half the village with Smokey now.

Maybes(undecided), Kate, Jin, Ben?(How can Ben be good I know lol).

I know i might of missed some for this list.

Another thing i don't understand is that Smokey chooses to leave some people alive that don't choose to join him out right. I wonder why, Richard for example, another example is Jin(possibly), another is Kate(maybe), there are others that i'm sure i can't think of right now.

Preview for next episode shows Smokey going after Ben and the preview claims Ben dies, so we will get to that later, but i assume Ben turns his offer down so he dies for it.

That's a good point, didn't think about that.

I don't know if she's just along for the ride as much as she's trying to absolve herself for taking Aaron from Claire.

Does Jack even have a son in the normal timeline?


I don't think Dogen had tried to kill Smokey before. I remember Sayid saying something to him about how he's had two chances now to go and try to kill Smokey himself but both times he's attempted to get other people to do the job. Then later we find out that Dogen simply being alive is what is keeping Smokey from entering the temple. I don't think Dogen could kill Smokey if he wanted to and he's just a guardian for the only safe haven on the island that Jacob could create.

Well, I think Smokey knew that Sayid could not refuse an offer to be reunited with Nadia. Also, remember how Dogen told Sayid that he had to strike Smokey before he could talk to Sayid? My guess would be that this is because Smokey would be able to complete whatever sickness Sayid has and fully take him over like he has Claire. Although, Sayid didn't seem as far gone as Claire in the aftermath even though he did kill Dogen / Hippie bitch.

In general yoox, I feel Richard needs his own episode atleast. There is alot left with him, and he has all but disappeared recently. I also think Kate is not in the smokey camp as well. I am curious if ben is going to have some redemption before he dies. We'll see.

Yeah i agree i think she is trying to absolve herself about Aaron with Claire. I thought she took Aaron because she thought Claire was dead at that point or gone. I mean the baby was left alone remember? Was there really a choice to leave the baby alone. So Kate decides after the three years that she wants to find Claire all of a sudden? That is why she came back to the island right? I'm alittle fuzzy on this part.

I don't think he does.

Himself no, but he did have someone else before Sayid to try and kill him. Smokey told Sayid that. Weither Dogen could kill Smokey or not, who knows, maybe he is a guardian or something(kinda like Richard that have to follow certain rules?). Dogen didn't finish off Sayid himself either, also Dogen tryed to get Jack to kill Sayid with the pill, so Dogen is just trying to get others to do his dirty work for him(weither he can do it himself or not). Sayid realized that he wouldn't do his own dirty work became angry and killed him(maybe he thought Dogen was a coward or whatever other reason).

Smokey is very clever and getting lots of them to follow his path. While Sayid didn't seem as far gone yet(cause the darkness needed time to get to his heart then he would be fully gone) at the end of the episode him smiling like that has to mean he's in league with Smokey now. Dogen just told Sayid to strike Smokey before he could talk cause he figured that Smokey would kill Sayid outright i believe and save him the trouble of dealing with another one of Smokey's eventual goons.

So, this seems very much that fate is unavoidable cause the flash sideways every thing is happening the same or close to.

I agree for sure they better give Richard justice of an episode(he has been one of my favorite characters along with Faraday). I wonder where Richard did run off to, since there is no safespots now that the temple is gone or is there? Then again can Smokey kill Richard or not? I mean Smokey did neck chop him pretty good, it's still so unclear.

I have to admit that i was alittle disapointed when the preview for next week just shows Ben's demise. He was so much of a ringleader for so long that he has just become a pawn. I mean i hated Ben for a while and he's alittle mo for killing Locke, but it just doesn't seem right just offing him now.

Well, they didn't have a choice in taking Aaron or not, but Kate made the choice to raise him rather than give him to Claire's mom. She kept Aaron a secret from any of his real family. Also she waited 3 years before deciding to try and find Claire instead of going after her sooner.


The baseball dropping from the table right as Dogen is about to kill Sayid is probably very significant to why he didn't kill Sayid himself. My guess would be the baseball was his son's and for some reason seeing it drop made him think twice about killing.

Is that why Sayid killed him? Seems to me the reason Sayid killed him is because Smokey asked him to after delivering the message. Dogen was what kept Smokey out of the temple so he needed Sayid to kill Dogen for him or he couldn't keep his promise of killing everyone that wouldn't come with him after sundown.

Claire is just batshit insane now. Crazy people don't need logical reasons to do the things they do. On a side note, I loved the look she gave Kate when Kate explained that she was raising Aaron. Such an awesomely eerie and evil look.

Yeah, I'm guessing there's more to that story. Dogen's story just kind of stopped without really explaining why exactly that memory caused him to suddenly have mercy on Sayid.

That was my impression as well.

So my girlfriend read me some stuff after a discussion about how much the episode last night sucked.

Going with my Aaron = smoke monster theory: Apparently during the first season Claire gets a fortune teller to read her fortune. She tells claire its of the most utmost importance that she raises her son, no one else. Nothing concrete, but its something.

Also, someone wrote about how the others worked so hard to capture walt, then seemed to let him go so easily and let him off the island. What if they are looking for someone's son. They don't know who, but they know the person is someone's son. Seems to be something similiar with Jack, they keep putting importance on the fact he is christian's son. But what if Christian isn't important himself as much as he is a man who has been to the island and has had a son. Again, nothing concrete, but there seems to be these themes of the "prodigal son" alot on Lost. What if Aaron is supposed to be some savior. Kinda of a long shot, and it would add one more thing to the list of Lost plotlines, but I don't put it past them. The smoke monster seems to have a liking of claire. I am sure she has no idea, but what if he does.

Yeah, i remember that now thanks. I think that Claire would say the same thing " wut my momma raised my kid, she dies now!". Like Asano said crazy people don't need logical reasoning. I see why Kate wants to make it right.

Yeah it was mercy then for Sayid cause of this part. I guess he could of killed him and there was nothing really stopping him except him not wanting to jeopardize something.

Yeah it is. It just really seemed like Sayid wouldn't of did it if Dogen wasn't trying to kill him. Even for the proposal of Smokey to reunite him with Nadia(maybe). Maybe Sayid would of anyway cause Nadia is the only thing he cared about really. Sayid just always seemed like a good guy even tho the whole iraq army thing and him trying to avoid that kind of stuff.

Thing is really from what i'm seeing with the show. Once you go bad there is no turning back no matter how hard you try to make a mends.

Good to bring this kind of stuff up cause it's hard to keep track of alot of S1 stuff and matching it with S6 stuff. I wouldn't put it past them. It's a cool theory. We talked some about how the kids were so important at one point and the story just totally took a right turn and never went back. The whole time travel thing combine with kids among other things, anything is possible.

Anything is certainly possible, but I'm putting my bet on Aaron turning out to be nothing at all. Just one of those things they made a big deal about early on and just let it fizzle out -- just like Walt.

I think the reason the fortune teller said Claire had to raise the baby herself is because her giving it up for adoption leads to her getting on the 815 flight (she was flying to LA to visit the prospective parents) that crashes on the island. If Claire raised the baby herself, she'd never get on the plane and would've been fine.

I hate to be so glass-half-empty but these guys have no idea what the fuck is going on. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers check the message boards to see what they should write next.
Ten episodes from now all of us who post here are gonna be full of piss and vinegar...talking shit about how this is the worst series ending since the Sopranos.